Daniel K. Isaac

Actor and playwright
Headshot of a man.

Photo credit: Emil Cohen

Music Credit:  “NY” from the cd Soul Sand composed and performed by Kosta T. Used courtesy of the Free Music Archive.

Jo Reed: From the National Endowment for the Arts, this is Art Works, I’m Josephine Reed.

Daniel K. Isaac: Television is how I've paid my bills and how I am student-loan free, and I can take care of my mother, and on the flipside, theater is what I call home. What I find incredibly thrilling and magical and irreplaceable, that I can never quit.

Jo Reed: That is Daniel K. Isaac. You may know Daniel K. Isaac as Ben Kim in the very successful series “Billions.” But here at the Arts Endowment, we know him as a theater person—as both an actor—appearing in works like “The Gentleman Caller” or creating the role of Atung in “The Chinese Lady,” and as a playwright. In fact, the Arts Endowment has partially supported the development of two of Daniel’s plays through the Ma-Yi Theater Company, including the recent “Once Upon a (Korean) Time” which will open in New York at the end of August. “Once Upon a (Korean) Time” mixes traditional Korean fables with traumas from the Korean War and the Japanese occupation as well as the displacement of leaving home and emigrating.  A staged reading of the play was filmed during the Covid lock-down and I was fortunate enough to see it. It was deeply moving and sometimes funny exploration that traced intergenerational trauma and celebrated the various ways of coping each generation used to carry on. Here’s Daniel K. Isaac explaining what he wants to convey with “Once Upon a (Korean) Time”

Daniel K. Isaac: Mm. I know that I was going on a personal excavation or exploration of my history, my lineage, my hyperawareness and education and the Western or European-centric storytelling and folktales and fables and mythology and such, and I wanted this to be a chance where I interrogated what it meant to not know my own Korean stories, my motherland’s folktales and fables and origin myths and whatnot, and so I wanted to figure out a way to theatricalize those stories that I was ingesting but also question the lineage that I come from as a Korean American child of immigrants, and I know little but some about how the Korean war affected my family and also how the Japanese occupation impacted my family, and so I guess I am exploring on my own and hoping to share that journey through this play, through this piece.

Jo Reed: You intersperse the play with interludes, or you call them interruptions, and they run from the story of the Korean “Cinderella” to examining names in the West that people use for Asians and Asian Americans.  What inspired these and that format?

Daniel K. Isaac: That's a great question because I think as we move towards production this fall, I’m excising them, I'm removing them, but I'm so grateful that they exist in this digital form that we were able to share, and I am interested in the medium of theater being a nonlinear or non-- I'm not interested in the living room drama that-- or comedy that takes place over a quote, unquote, “realistic period of time,” and so these interruptions were my writer manifestations of interrogating many different things with this piece and perhaps over-tackling or chewing too much in trying to get it all out there. But as it came about with the digital production, I felt that I was hearing things that I am still wrestling inside, in my artistry and in my writing, sure, but also in my everyday being, and I wanted to put that in this piece somehow, and I think now as we figure out production, I'm trusting that a lot of that exists in the DNA of the show without overt monologues.

Jo Reed: What was it like for you to see this get born, to see your words on a page really become manifest?

Daniel K. Isaac: I feel like I am only experiencing firsts as a writer, and so I find it to be such a privilege and a joy and something inarticulate -- how much I feel when I get to hear and see it come to life and the choices that artists bring, especially because I love the collaboration inherent in theater and in storytelling, and so I am just overwhelmed with gratitude for the artists that have shared their time, whether in this digital production or in one-day readings or cursory glances at the script and their feedback and input and voice that has truly woven its way into this piece that, while not frozen, is, I hope, a living document of my interactions with them and their touch upon it.

Jo Reed: Well, I certainly want to give a shout-out to the actors and the director of the digital production. They were truly fabulous to a person.

Daniel K. Isaac: They're incredible. They're some of my favorite artists to work with.

Jo Reed: We’re still grappling with Covid and its restrictions…and the digital version of “Once Upon a (Korean) Time” was filmed over a year ago. How was this produced and shot?

Daniel K. Isaac: It was a pre-vaccine recording, and so there was a lot of fear and safety measures put in place. Ma-Yi Theater Company, a small but mighty company, took their rehearsal space and turned it into a sort of film, TV studio so as to adapt and to be able to continue presenting stories in the midst of a pandemic, and so for this, we tried to limit the number of bodies in the room as much as possible so that, essentially, the actor was in there by themself with a headset of sorts with Ralph Peña, the director, and a camera operator and a sound operator, I believe, were the four bodies in the room, and stage manager and myself were via Zoom. We had a teleprompter so as to release any need to memorize, and they either acted with me or with a stage manager or with just by themselves, which is a further testament to their artistry and creativity because I'm sure-- maybe Marvel actors get this or understand how difficult it is to work in front of a green screen alone, but for our theater artists that are supposed to be doing an ensemble piece and are essentially doing one-person shows each day of recording, it was a Herculean effort that I'm so proud of it and how it turned out. But, also, it was a very down and dirty, fast process. Whatever choice you make is not a wrong choice, and we will encourage it and go big and then literally go home.

Jo Reed: How were you able to work with the actors before the recording? Was there a rehearsal process, and did they have input, and how did you incorporate that?

Daniel K. Isaac: Yeah, we did Zoom rehearsals as an ensemble, and I remember we were gathering this group that felt impossible to gather normally. Shannon Tyo, who just won a Lucille Lortel Award for Lead Actor in a Play in “The Chinese Lady”; and Jeena Yi, who's shooting a movie right now in the Dominican Republic; and Dave Shih, who's out of town doing a play called “The Paper Dreams of Harry Chin”; and John Norman Schneider, who's in California right now doing “Tiger Style” by Mike Lew. And Diana Oh, who's just a goddess of a human and plays every instrument and is creating sources of magic and light around the country. They came together to do this, and it just blew my mind, and from the very first Zoom reading, it was a leaning into the whatever impulse you have, whatever choices you make. Whatever responses you have are welcome and will be amplified, and speaking for myself, but I do remember hearing it in the room that it had reminded us the joy of playing, the gift of getting to be goofy or foolish or make outlandish choices, and that that was welcome, and what I hope is the container of this piece, that theatrical expression and theatricality and bold, big, brash choices are necessary for this piece to soar, and so these artists did that in the comfort of their living rooms and then in a newly transformed green screen studio while there were air purifiers going and the window open to a noisy Manhattan and trying to create in the midst of very trying circumstances.

Jo Reed: I'd like you to talk about the experience working with a company like Ya-Mi where you're working with other Asian American theater people, including in plays by Asian Americans, when too often what we see is the single Asian or Asian American on stage or on the screen.

Daniel K. Isaac:  Ma-Yi was founded in 1980 I want to say and is the sole theater company in America that only produces new works by living Asian American playwrights, and for that to exist is so necessary and so transformative not just for my career say but for-- when I first moved to the city 13 years ago, there were so few companies….

Jo Reed: Let me just interrupt: when you say “the city,” you mean New York City.

Daniel K. Isaac: Right. When I first moved here, there was Pan Asian Rep. There was NAATCO, National Asian American Theatre Company and Ma-Yi Theatre Company. Ma-Yi was the only one that only did living and new works by Asian American playwrights, and I knew that that had to be a home base for me, a landing pad, a safe space, a community, and I slowly worked my way-- or just worked period and was given access to work, and I'm so grateful that they exist because not only do they catapult careers like Hansol Jung and Lauren Yee and Lloyd Suh, but there's no other space like that, and if we've learned anything in a reckoning of trying to have more inclusive storytelling, it has to be on all sides of the table, and so to have a place that incubates, nurtures, and produces Asian American playwrights is so vital and necessary because then those playwrights go on to develop TV shows or work in TV rooms and then advocate for actors to be on those TV shows or movies or continue to produce plays like “The Chinese Lady,” and that means that Afong Moy and Atung are two incredible roles for two incredible actors to play all across the country, and that is literally more work, and that's just a two-hander versus what I hope with, say, “Once Upon a (Korean) Time” with its seven-person cast ideally. Getting produced around the country means seven more actors have seven more jobs and a director or designer, hopefully of color, but the people that come together to create this piece in its communal and collaborative effort, it's job making, right? So Ma-Yi has created jobs by fostering these Asian American voices, and don't we all just need more jobs? <laughter>

Jo Reed: Yes, we do. <laughs> And speaking of jobs in acting, how did you come to acting?

Daniel K. Isaac: I was introduced to it. At a young age, I attended a large Korean and Korean American church in Southern California, and my mom, who was a single parent-- and I'm an only child. My mom had heard a story about a pastor who was asked to speak in front of a larger congregation than he was normally used to speaking, and he froze with stage fright, and I don't remember if she was in attendance or if she just heard this story, but she, in many ways, is a phenomenal mother for recognizing what she could or could not teach as a single parent and as an immigrant and asked if I would be interested in joining our church's theater troupe so as to combat the potential or to never have the fear of stage fright or to be able to tackle that fear no matter how large an audience I was speaking to, and of course, there were some, I'm sure, selfish aspirations that I would be a lawyer in front of a courtroom or a doctor who had to give great, grand presentations or, of course, a pastor or missionary of sorts.  She never had imagined that I would pursue the arts, and yet she was the one who had encouraged me and introduced me to it, and even from a younger age than that, as a single parent and  we didn't have much money. Her sort of babysitter for me was the LA and Orange County cultural scene that hopefully could be either severely discounted or free, and so she worked at a bank for a period of time that was in one of the high rises in downtown LA, and they were given comps, and I remember seeing “Les Mis” as probably my first musical in the nosebleed seats and yet having a profound experience at that and seeing a Van Gogh exhibit or a Matisse or a Monet exhibit. And she now says she should have known better that I would have entered the arts with all of the exposure she had shared with me or that I had experienced as a child, but for her it was a means of survival and a means of taking care of me as a single parent and making sure I wasn't just at home

Jo Reed: Early on in your early adolescence, you also began grappling with your sexuality, and you've been quite open about that.

Daniel K. Isaac: Because of this religious upbringing and the perspective my mother had on sex and sexuality, given this church I grew up in and her own beliefs, I feel that I have some sort of personal agenda to destigmatize, deshame, and to ensure sex positivity in that I did not have that growing up, and I was full of shame for  what I considered to be a sin of homosexuality at the time, and I was full of shame and stigma and hated that that was what I was quote, unquote, “tackling” or burdened with or that this was my sin that I had to overcome in order to be the best or purest or a good disciple of Christ, and so my art and artistry but also my very being is tied to learning to deprogram that, learning to take ownership of who I am and my identity, to not find fear or shame or stigma or negativity or pain or to tackle the pain of it head on because there was a lot of trauma around it in the religious aspects. And I volunteered myself to go into conversion therapy, and I only came out to my mother once I had done that, and she had suspected, of course, but also blames herself because she thought it was because she couldn't provide a father figure for me in her life, and that is her rationale for why some people are gay. And for me, it wasn't until I was sort of fully enmeshed in the theater world where there were so many out and proud LGBTQ+ folks who either held my hand literally or metaphorically or were living with such pride and freedom and light that I found hope and community there and thus perhaps clung to it even more fiercely because that's where I'd seen it emulated as a place-- as a safe space, and so that's what I continue to hope to foster in my work but also continue to find refuge in even as an adult.

Jo Reed: Well, you sort of fostered it explicitly with first a hashtag and then a series called “According to My Mother.”

Daniel K. Isaac: Mm-hmm.

Jo Reed: Talk about that project and its evolution from this incredibly painful time to creating a series about it that often can be quite funny.

Daniel K. Isaac: Right. If I have some thesis in my writing voice,  or just as exemplified by my life, I think great pain and sorrow and trauma and hurt comes alongside incredible laughter and joy and unexpected guffaws and random or absurd comedy, and so I was writing about interactions with my mother, whether they were via text, email, phone, or in person just on Facebook when folks of my generation used Facebook more, and as I posted about them, my friend Cathy Yan, whom I'd done her NYU MFA second-year film with, a short film, approached me to turn those excerpts and quotes and experiences, to try to share that story as a short film slash pilot presentation, and we shot it in 2015. And as we were writing and developing it, we realized it should and could be larger than a short film and have for years now been developing it to be a TV show, and Cathy’s has gone on to do incredible feature work, and now she's got tons of projects I'm sure she's juggling in addition to “According to My Mother.” But we are soldiering on as we try to develop the show that's still about my very much alive mother and a relationship that I struggle with on a day-to-day or sometimes moment-to-moment basis, so much so that I recently received notes that it seemed like I was too in the thick of trauma, and yet the writing and the creation, the fictionalization or the dramatization of what has literally happened continues to be my source of healing and reminder to find the laughter in the darkness and the light and joy despite incredible pain and hurt that only a parent can give a child and vice versa, and so we were able to shoot it in 2015, and it did well in the short film and pilot circuit.

Jo Reed: It won awards.

Daniel K. Isaac: And it won awards, and I'm very thankful for them, and yet here we are in 2022, still trying, still generating new ideas as we try to find the right way to share this story and, hopefully, launch it as a longer-form TV show.

Jo Reed: The role you might be best known for is Ben Kim on “Billions.” So, it's so interesting. According to my mother, that little engine that could still be going up the hill and you have this role in this huge, big production of this mammothly successful television show, and tell me about getting the role of Ben Kim, and how many auditions did you have to do?

Daniel K. Isaac: <chuckles> I believe it was one audition at Any Kaufman's office. She cast the pilot and I didn't think too much of it. My manager at the time had no access to the scripts. I knew so little about it except that he was a character named Ben Kim and I thought, "Well, my legal birth name is Kim so maybe there's something there," and he went to Stanford-Wharton, and I thought, Well, I remember my mother took me to a graduation of some family friend or friend of a friend at Stanford so as to give me something to aspire to <chuckles>. Even though we didn't know the people who were graduating, we somehow were there, and so, this character went on the alternate life path of business school, and a master's, and was pursuing a career in finance, and I knew I could tap into that, and I knew that it could be something. But I had also been a part of pilots or auditions for things that didn't go. That didn't continue on. I think I had three or five lines in the pilot, and I auditioned in December of 2014. We shot it in January of 2015, and around that spring, I was doing a play at 59 East 59 and as we were in tech, maybe, I got a call from my manager at the time and he said, "Oh, the show's been picked up and they're pinning you for a handful of other episodes," and I thought, "Wow, that's amazing." I remember we did a table read for that pilot downtown at Three-Legged Dog. And it was a giant-- I mean, they just put folding table after folding table in this huge U for the pilot alone, and I thought, "I am but one tiny cog in a large machine," and the show has proven itself to be an incredible ensemble of especially New York City's greatest actors. And I didn't ever imagine that it would continue this long, and those handful of episodes they pinned me for ended up turning out to be every single episode that first season, 12 eps, and we were shooting season two and wrapping up the 12th episode again and it happened again where they would pin me for a handful of them, and then it would all sort of fill in, and I ended up doing all 24 after the first two seasons, and Brian Koppelman or David Levien, who  are executive producers and creators of the show, and they were pointing at different actors as we were sitting around asking, "How may eps have you done? How many have you done?" And they pointed at me and I sort of sheepishly said, "I've done all of them, all 24," and they're in the thick of writing so they don't count that kind of stuff or they haven't thought of it, and I remember at that premiere party for season two they were introducing all of us actors who were there and Brian shouted out, "And Daniel K. Isaac who's not a series regular and has done every single episode," and they've continued to write for me and this character since then, which is just the hugest of honors and something I never could've imagined from that initial audition in 2014 and doing three or five lines

Jo Reed: When you got the job at "Billions," let's face it, theater acting, playwriting, forget getting rich. It's hard enough to pay the rent.

Daniel K. Isaac: <chuckles> Truly.

Jo Reed: Did you have a day job at the time?

Daniel K. Isaac: Yes, I was waiting tables and bartending at a restaurant called Hillstone in the Citicorp building. I was still waiting tables as we shot season one, and partially through season two if not all of it because I just didn't believe that any project would be the definitive thing that could free me from the survival job. I had been, if not burned then I had gone through the ups and downs of having and not having, and so, I kept it, and I had worked there for enough time and in all things I do I took it very seriously, and so, they rewarded my loyalty or my at least aptitude and they let me set my schedule, which I don't think they would ever do again after what happened with me where I sort of was unable to schedule shifts as I got busier with shooting "Billions," and after the first season aired I remember going around the restaurant and tables would stop me and say, "Oh, you're on that show," and while I didn't have a significant part, they loved the show and that tended to slow me down and mean that I wasn't contributing as much as a team player, and slowly I realized that at least this survival job may not be a long-term viable option, and  it was sort of a you have moved onto a different chapter or your life, and let's take the leap of faith and see where that goes, and not many shows I think go this long and so, I can only express gratitude that we have aired six and are planning to shoot season seven this fall.

Jo Reed: Well, Ben Kim is such a loveable character. Tell us about the role of Ben Kim; who he is, and why do you think he resonates so much?

Daniel K. Isaac: Sure. I saw Ben Kim going from a sort of cockiness in this first introduction and based on school resume, which I'm sure many folks with their degrees and certificates and whatnot may feel coming out of establishments like Stanford, and Wharton, and whatnot.  I n the first season he sort of gets knocked down a peg and is the new guy who is trying to find his footing and I myself am an ambivert who leans towards quieter, especially in group settings. And so, I think my literal quiet energy was infused in this character, and the character was also introduced as having immigrant Korean parents who had a deli, I think, in Queens, in Kew Gardens, and that he is the child of immigrants that does what immigrant parents hope and goes to the great schools, and in that first season, he says his parents have only taken two days off from work. One to visit the campus, and one on a day of his graduation, which I felt was very honest to many immigrant families and parents that I knew, and so, we go from that to someone trying to find their footing in what I would argue is a toxic masculine world, and he is a source of goodness or has a good moral compass, and yet you have to be a shark. You have to be able to make risky, and bolder, and say more extroverted, energetic plays in this field, and the character goes through this growth from shy analyst or someone finding their footing to now a portfolio manager, and someone who has grown into his own more, and I think there's continued exploration to be had here but that development seems to be a nice parallel <chuckles> to perhaps my own journey in the show but also in my artistry and how much space I or one takes up and while I don't know the future, I know that I have hopefully been a kind and good energy to be around, and I think they have written that and also have said, "You can speak up more. You can take up more space. You can be," and this character has gone on that journey as well.

Jo Reed: Well, you obviously continue to work in theater while filming "Billions." So, I'd just like you to talk about the differences between working in theater as opposed to television. Not which is better because obviously they're both great but they offer I'm sure different challenges and different opportunities for you as an actor.

Daniel K. Isaac: Absolutely. Like we joked before, television is how I've paid my bills and how I am student-loan free, and I can take care of my mother, and on the flipside, theater is what I call home. What I find incredibly thrilling and magical. Literally magical, and irreplaceable, and that to gather as artists and as audience is a fundamental need and sacred space, and church that I can never quit. That I just can't quit theater and there's nothing like it.  My love for it is so immense, and my need to continue to explore there, and to fail there, and to just get to be there is so great that I will always return to the stage whenever possible, and why I have written for the stage initially because that is where I am trying to exercise my agency and my voice, and believing that this is where great creative potential and it sounds hokey but where magic can happen.

Jo Reed:. So, "Once Upon a (Korean) Time" is opening in August, which of course is exciting. So, between now and then, work, work, work on that?

Daniel K. Isaac: <chuckles> Yes, I have to wrap my head around, you have to go be a writer and just sit in that lane, that chair, and see and feel what that is like, and try to make the best of it that you can with these artists that are coming together, and that is at once terrifying and exhilarating. So, I will be venturing forth <chuckles> as a playwright for this upcoming season.

Jo Reed: That's very exciting.   We mentioned that NEA supported the development of “Once Upon a (Korean) Time” through the Ma-Yi Theater.  What did that support allow you to do?

Daniel K. Isaac: So, I fully recognize that this is a podcast for the NEA and you all supported in so many workshops and I don't know where to send a thank you card to. So, when this podcast request happened, I thought, "Well, maybe this is my thank you." I have continued to reap the generosity; the benefits of NEA's support in my writing. And the NEA made the workshops of this possible, and I know for me personally but for many writers, writing can be so lonely, and so hard, and so isolating, and so I crave and need in my process the time when you can gather other artists and hear their voices and have their energies in the room and I love when it is in person, and I have adapted to it being online. But there is nothing like that and to not feel alone in your process is the biggest gift that the NEA has been allowing us to afford because Ma-Yi is super committed to a living wage and I deeply care about that because I cannot forget my experience in survival jobs plus pursuing my artistry and so, I care deeply about being able to pay these artists for their time. Because really their time is invaluable and priceless, and the NEA funding has allowed us to afford-- These are large cast shows and they are long shows, and they are creatively intense explorations. I am demanding so much out of everyone because I believe it is possible and that is the kind of theater that excites me, and that is what the NEA has made possible, and so I don't know how to get off of this soapbox of gratitude for what the NEA does and has done for my career in supporting Ma-Yi, and myself, and these arts who have all been able to gather and create and explore and fail, and also produced this digital form of a play that now is getting a live in-person treatment. So, just thank you, thank you, thank you.

Jo Reed: And thank you.  Daniel, I'd like you to recommend three playwrights or three actors because you do both who you think people should know more about or perhaps become reacquainted with.

Daniel K. Isaac: Well, I cannot sing her praises enough. She just won the Lucille Lortel yesterday. I had her signed with my agency. I need Shannon Tyo, T-Y-O, to be a star. I need her to be recognized as the superstar and just massive interstellar galaxy that she is as an artist and what she offers onstage, and if you had the privilege to witness her in “The Chinese Lady," or in any other project she's ever touched, she is hands-down phenomenal. I just cannot recommend her enough <chuckles> and that's partially because we've been doing this play since 2018 but doing “The Chinese Lady” was how she and I met one another and now I am forever bonded to her, and I would love folks to be reminded of their love of Jon Norman Schneider who was my alternate in “The Chinese Lady." Who was doing “Tiger Style!” in California at South Coast Rep. When I write I am unabashedly autobiographical and Jon Norman has been the artist that I write for, and has been a muse but also just a generous artist who then takes my ramblings and <chuckles> tries to make sense of them and offer his voice, and perspective. And this morning Jeena Yi helped me work on a self-tape and I just can't sing her praises enough, and she was also in the recording as was Shannon and Jon Norman of "Once Upon a (Korean) Time." So, really just look at the actors that I continue to cast <chuckles> because I can't sing their praises enough, and Jeena’s in "Only Murders in the Building," if you caught that first season and she just did Susan Soon He Stanton's play up at Yale Rep. “Today's my Birthday,” and she's a phenomenal one and I expect all three of these to be superstars.

Jo Reed: And thank you and that is a great place to leave it. Daniel, thank you for giving me your time, and thank you for all of your wonderful work.

Daniel K. Isaac: Thank you for having me. It's been a joy to go on this memory journey and also to get to talk more about these artists that I love and this play that I am deeply excited to share and cannot express enough gratitude in your support in making that possible. So, thank you.

Jo Reed: Not at all. I can't wait to see the live version. Thank you.

That was actor and playwright Daniel K. Issac. Keep up with him at danielkisaac.com. The Ma-Yi Theater Company is presenting Daniel’s play “Once Upon a (Korean) Time” in August. You can find out all about it at Ma-yitheater.org. You’ve been listening to Art Works produced at the National Endowment for the Arts. Follow us on Apple podcasts or Google Play and leave us a rating. It helps people to find us. I’m Josephine Reed. Stay Safe and thanks for listening.

###

You may know Daniel K. Isaac as Ben Kim from the television series “Billions,” but he’s also a committed and talented actor in theater and an accomplished playwright. In fact, his play “ONCE UPON A (korean) TIME”-- which was supported in part by the Arts Endowment-- is opening in New York in August. In this podcast, Daniel K. Isaac discusses his great love of theater, his new play “ONCE UPON A (korean) TIME”- his commitment to bring Asian and Asian-American voices and stories to the stage, his work with the Ma-Yi Theater Company, his series-in-development, “According to My Mother” which explores his challenging relationship with his mother after he came out to her, and, of course, his role as Ben Kim on the television series “Billions.”

Here are the actors discussed in the podcast that Daniel K. Isaac wants us to know more about: Shannon Tyo,  Jon Norman Schneider, and Jeena Yi.

Follow us on Apple Podcasts!