Music Credit: “NY” written and performed by Kosta T, from cd Soul Sand, used courtesy of the Free Music Archive. *Music Up* Jo Reed: Welcome to Art Works, the weekly podcast produced at the National Endowment for the Arts, I’m Josephine Reed. This week we’re continuing our celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month and marking the opening of the Fall season of American Ballet Theatre. It’s a conversation with Herman Cornejo— one of the most celebrated dancers of our present age. Born in Argentina, Herman joined ABT almost twenty years ago rising through the ranks to principal dancer by 2003. During his career, he’s danced most of the major roles in classical ballet and has shown his wide ranging talent in contemporary dance working with an impressive roster of choreographers and artists. Considered a prodigy by teachers and critics alike, he won the Gold Medal at the International Moscow Competition at age of 16, the youngest dancer to get this award. He was 17 when he was invited to join ABT Studio Company and the following year in 1999 he was selected to perform Bronze Idol in ABT’s La Bayadère becoming a member of the corps de ballet and soon to be one of the great stars of the company. In addition to ABT, Herman is also a principle dancer with the Corella Ballet in Spain. His repertoire consists of more than 90 roles of classical, modern and contemporary ballets. He works regularly with the today’s greatest choreographers including Alexei Ratmansky, Twyla Tharp, Martha Clarke, Mark Morris, and Justin Peck who have all created leading roles especially for him. He has a reputation as one the great partners: in fact, in 2012, he began a collaboration with the great Italian ballerina Alessandra Ferri, who had retired five years earlier. They’ve appeared in multiple works together beginning with Martha Clarke’s production of Cheri. Herman Cornejo has multiple prizes, awards and distinctions, including being named a Peace Messenger by UNESCO, Dancer of the Year by the NYT, and Latin Idol by Hispanic Magazine…and in late summer he received the Positano Premia La Danza 2018 Award as a “Dancer of the Year” and that’s where we began our conversation Jo Reed: Herman, I want to begin by congratulating you on this wonderful award you've gotten as dancer of the year from Positano. Herman Cornejo: Thank you very much. It was very beautiful to receive the news. Jo Reed: You went to Amalfi Coast to receive the award. Did you perform while you were there? Herman Cornejo: Yes, a tango that I created for myself. And I thought it would be very nice to show not only what I can do as a dancer but also my view, not that I want to be a choreographer, but that I have views beyond just dancing. Jo Reed: Yeah, that's interesting. And I do want to talk to you about that because I actually have seen you do that tango and it's wonderful. But you had long said that you really didn't want to choreograph. So tell me what made you decide to jump in and do that? Herman Cornejo: Well, I'm mainly choreographing for myself to experience and to, in a way, show what I can express of myself. I don't see myself as a choreographer. I think I understand my body very well to be able to choreograph. I don't think I will be able to choreograph for others so far. So I’m just experimenting with my body first and see where that takes me. It’s definitely not my goal to become a choreographer, but a director, a director I think it will be something that I would love to do in the future. Jo Reed: A director? You mean an artistic director of a company? Herman Cornejo: Artistic director. Yes. And I think all of these facets they give you different knowledge and I think it's good to go through them. When it's your time to become a director you have a wide range of knowledge where you want to bring for the company. Jo Reed: Right. A sense of where you want a company to go. Herman Cornejo: Exactly. Jo Reed: Next year will be year your twentieth at ABT, American Ballet Theatre. Herman Cornejo: Yes. Yes, that's correct. Every time I hear 20 it's unbelievable because in my body it feels like it's been just a few years. And I look back and I see how much I’ve done with the company. And it's really a dream. I joined the company very young when I was very young when I was 17 years old. And to feel now that I'm the oldest in the company it's in a way shocking when I was the youngest not so long ago for me. Jo Reed: It's shocking for me in the audience. You're not the oldest, are you? Herman Cornejo: I think right now I'm the oldest but I feel very young. I feel my body very strong. I’m only 37 years old. I think I have many, many years to go as principal with the company. Your artistry reaches kind of balance with your technique and it's kind of like the peak for a ballet dancer to be in the mid-thirties. Jo Reed: You're from Argentina and you come from an artistic family. Your sister is also a dancer. Herman Cornejo: My sister is also a dancer. We joined together the American Ballet Theatre. She was promoted to soloist before me. And then she found her way to be principal dancer with Boston Ballet for over 10 years. Jo Reed: Tell me, I should know this and I apologize, is she older, are you older? Herman Cornejo: She's older. Two-and-a-half years older and she started ballet first. And I think it's because of her that I started ballet. Jo Reed: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you if she sort of lead the way. When did you begin to dance? Herman Cornejo: Well, my sister started when she was three years old. So when I was born she was already taking her ballet class. But my parents, when I was six, they took me to a place to choose a sport from karate to kung fu and soccer and swimming and I chose that moment to do ice-skating and roller skating. And it was shocking for them to feel that I wanted to, in a way, dance because I was very shy in school. I never want to do any kind of event in school. And it was a feeling in my body that I wanted to do that and I did it for two years. And one day I was looking at my sister in her ballet class peaking in the window and the teacher saw me and he said, "Why don't you come in the next day. Come with tights and demi-pointe and you can start ballet." And I just said yes right away. It was a very strong decision like it was meant to be. Jo Reed: Is it possible, I know this is a hard question for you to remember, what it was about dance that just so grabbed you? Herman Cornejo: Well, I remember my parents gave me a video of Vladimir Vasiliev doing “Spartacus.” And not so long after that Maximilian Guerra, a very iconic Argentinian dancer, performed the role in Buenos Aires at a stadium so there were about 20,000 people watching the show. And so they took me to see it. And just seeing that role and a dancer so masculine on stage and being a warrior that's what captured my attention. I said in that moment this is what I want to do. And maybe that's why today I love doing warrior roles and maybe that’s why La Bayadère there is one of my favorite roles to do. Jo Reed: And in La Bayadère you play the warrior Solar. I was going to ask you about that. You came to New York City to live the first time when you were just 14. Right? You got a scholarship to the School of American Ballet? Herman Cornejo: That's correct. And I was chosen from many, many participants. And I have to thank my teachers back in Argentina they were courageous enough to send me away to other teachers. And I came to the SAB to do the summer program. It was only a month-and-a-half but they wanted me to stay. And for me that was a highlight in my career, in a way, because of course because of my age I went to one of the lowest levels in the summer program. And after the first class they took me to the highest level where in that moment I opened the door and there was a Baryshnikov thanking the class. So at 14 taking a class next to Baryshnikov it was really a shock in the best way. I carry that with me forever now. Jo Reed: Let me ask you this. Are dancers trained differently in the United States than in Argentina than in Russia? Are different things emphasized depending on where you’re trained? Herman Cornejo: Yeah, there are different schools, different ways to teach. I guess here in America the technique is, I will say, the technique is one of the cleanest because they take the movement and they clean each movement. Maybe it's due to Balanchine when he started with his way of choreography and everything is very sharp and very fast. So it was very different for me to come and study here and that gave me another range of movement. Jo Reed: Well, you went back to Argentina but you also became the youngest person to win the international Moscow competition. Herman Cornejo: That's correct. Everything it’s a dream. Like I said at the beginning now I look back and it's just unbelievable everything that happened to me. I went back to Argentina because Julio Bocca asked me to join his Ballet Argentino. He created a company for young dancers. And so I joined the company when I was 14 and I was there for two years. And on my second year he asked me if I wanted to be part of one of the biggest competitions in the world which is the Moscow competition. And he asked me this because I was under age for the competition. The competition was from 18 to 24 and I was only 16. And he said, “I'm asking you this because I have the possibility to ask if they could take you into the competition even though you will be under age.” And I just said yes right away. I mean I just wanted to experience what he felt because he also won the gold medal in that competition. And I said yes. And I would never have thought of winning the gold medal especially being under age. It was a total surprise. It's true, yes, I worked really hard to do my best. But I was never thinking in winning and getting to the finals. But I did. And I think that was what opened my doors for coming to ABT. Jo Reed: And you moved through ABT so quickly. You were an apprentice. And you became a member of the corps in ‘99, a soloist in 2000 and a principal in 2003. Herman Cornejo: Yes. Jo Reed: That is very quick. Herman Cornejo: It is very quick. And there's a funny story how I went from apprentice to corps. And when they give me this apprentice contract I did the Met season performing soloist roles. And right after the Met season the company was going to Japan to perform La Bayadère. And so they cast me to the Bronze Idol. And apparently the Bronze Idol is categorized as a principal role. So I was there all painted in gold before going on stage, somebody comes and says, “Oh, you know what, as an apprentice you’re not allowed to do principal roles. So could you please signed this corps contract.” And so that's how I became officially a member of the company. And I signed my contract all painted in gold. Jo Reed: What changed for you when you became a principal? The roles, obviously, expanded somewhat, correct? Herman Cornejo: Yes, they did. I had struggles anyway even though it was a fast transition I had struggles to go from my soloist roles, a secondary role, to do the lead roles. And that was due to my height. Kevin saw my potential and my great dancing. Jo Reed: And that’s Kevin McKenzie the Artistic Director of ABT. Herman Cornejo: Yes, and that's how he promoted me to principal. But then he took a little time to give me all of these leading roles. And I remember my first, “Don Quixote”, for example, it came due to an injury that a friend had. And he asked me in that moment if I was willing to do it because there were only three days to the show. And I didn't care that what it was only three days. I said yes I can learn the whole thing. And I can rehearse it with Xiomara. She's tiny. She's very small. It's going to be fine to partner her. And that was my first leading role in the company: “Don Quixote”. Jo Reed: And that was dancer Xiomara Reyes that you partnered in Don Quixote. But you were not only a principal dancer at American Ballet Theatre, you’re also principal dancer at Corella Ballet in Spain which was started by former dancer at ABT, Angel Corella. Herman Cornejo: That's correct. After Angel left ABT, he wanted to create a company in Spain, an elite company. He really went big and created this company of 70 dancers. And he asked me to be part of his company and I said yes. I spoke to Kevin. And said would you be okay if I share my time with American Ballet Theatre and this new company in Spain? Of course, he said yes. Kevin is very open, especially, with me to be doing new things and to expanding my repertoire. Jo Reed: Because you were so young, too. Herman Cornejo: Very young. Very young. And for a few years I was doing both companies. Jo Reed: And you really stepped into some of those leading roles at Corella Ballet. Herman Cornejo: With Corella I did Swan Lake and Bayadère. Those were my premieres with Angel’s company and not with ABT. And I have to thank Angel, as well, for giving me that opportunity because then Kevin saw it as well, saw me on stage during those roles. And he understood what I could do. And after that he offered me to do it with ABT. Jo Reed: Now partnering, what are the considerations that go into finding the right partner? Obviously, every single person at ABT has a lot of talent. So there's something else. Herman Cornejo: Yeah. I think it's the chemistry that you find when you look at someone in the eye and you don't really have to try and it's just there. That happened to me with Alessandra Ferri, for example, that it was a shock for the two of us because we are from very, very different generations. And when we started working together doing “Cheri” that it was more play than a ballet. We couldn't believe it how well we connected and how easily it was to work and create together. And that's why we keep creating new things for each other because we felt that that connection was unique. Jo Reed: Yeah, that is interesting because there is such a big age difference. Herman Cornejo: Yes. Jo Reed: And it’s not just the age difference but it's also ballet changes over the generations. Herman Cornejo: Mm-Hm. Ballet changes over the generations but there's something that it doesn't change and it's the feeling for what you do. I'm pretty sure the audience that came to see “Giselle” with Alicia Alonso they will see it in a very, very different way today but they might get the same feeling, the same love, and the same passion for it. Jo Reed: And Alicia Alonso danced primarily in the 40s and 50s. You know, the first “Giselle” I saw was with Baryshnikov and Natalia Makarova. And I was young, I was literally sobbing by the end of that ballet. It was so moving. I had never seen anything like that. It was just extraordinary. It changed my life. Herman Cornejo: Yeah. It's not about the technique. It's not about where they train. It's how well they connect and that's what the audience sees. Jo Reed: Yeah, exactly. I felt like they’re possessed. So let me ask you this, how is partnering in classical ballet different than partnering in contemporary work? Herman Cornejo: Well, contemporary works are, in a way, harder because, in these new creations, the ballerina tends to be off balance. So you need to have a bit more strength in your muscles to hold them to be off balance and make it smooth. In classical ballet this is very, very straight. You have to create beautiful lines but always on balance. They both have difficulties because in classical if the ballerina is not straight you can really see it. And maybe in modern pieces if the ballerina goes a little bit off, it's still part of it so that will be fine. But it does require a bit more strength in your muscles. Jo Reed: And I know you like classical ballet a great deal. What attracts you to it? Herman Cornejo: The acting. I will say that interpreting a role is all for me. Of course, I do learn the steps. And I train my steps to be-- it's impossible to be perfect, but you always try to reach that excellency in your classical steps, your turns, your pirouettes, your jumps. But what drives me to do it is the acting. Jo Reed: It must be so different because you need not just the strength but also that kind of focus to have a character like Albrecht, for example, in “Giselle” for an entire evening. Herman Cornejo: Yes. It drains you so much. For me, one of the hardest to keep up with the technical staff and the acting is “Romeo and Juliet” because it requires a great technique. It requires for you to sword fight and not only have the strength to hold the sword when you are tired. But then you have this amazing pas de deux that they just need to look beyond smooth and acting with your partner. And, I think, that's when your partner becomes extremely important to really be connected. And so that you don't have to fake the acting and really feel it. Jo Reed: That makes perfect sense. What about when you revisit roles? Like Puck in A Midsummer Night’s Dream, for example, which you first danced years ago. Has it changed? And I don't mean in a big way. But are there are subtleties and nuances that you bring to it now that you didn't before because you have more experience not just as a dancer but as a person being alive. Herman Cornejo: Yeah. That is the best part, actually. I love this question. When you revisit the work it's one of the most rewarding moments because you can dig into the role and make it your own in a very different way. I remember when we did the video for American Ballet Theatre and that was actually my debut doing Puck. And it's very technical. And I did it kind of maybe in a happy way and then when it came back ten years later I said to Kevin I don't know if I want to do this again. First of all, because I felt so good doing it the first time and it's in video. It's very hard technically. And he said, "Why don't you approach it in a different way?" And I said yeah, let me see what I can do. And I approached the role in a kind of evil way and more integrated-- the whole mind doesn't change but the way you approach the acting could be different. And I just loved revisiting the role. Jo Reed: Being able to do that, yeah. You don't have to strain to see Puck has more than a touch of cruelty in him. Herman Cornejo: Yeah, I think revisiting pieces is when you start adding layers to the character and it's when you can find yourself being an artist. Jo Reed: I really would love to have you share the experience of having a ballet made on you. I'm thinking first of Alexei Ratmansky because he's the choreographer at ABT. And, you know, he's done a few ballets for you. Herman Cornejo: Yes. Jo Reed: How do you work together? How does that come to be? Herman Cornejo: Well, Alexei is a very, very specific in what he wants which is great to go into a room and be with someone that is not mumbling in creating something. He's very specific. And what I take from working with him is how far he push you and how far you’re willing to go with him because he has such a different view in dancing. And I think that's what makes what he does very different from others. He's been with the company for ten years and he has choreographed a lot of things for me. And even though keep his style, there's a range of roles that I've done with him that are so, so different. And it's a treat. It's a treat to be able to look back and say, oh my God, Alexei created this for me. He gave me a piece of him. And it's a beautiful gift. Jo Reed: Talk about Martha Clarke because didn't she creates “Cheri” for you and Alessandra Ferri? Herman Cornejo: That's correct. Jo Reed: How did that work differently? Because there were the two of you and she's working with both of you. Herman Cornejo: Yeah. And that was an interesting work because, first of all, it wasn't dancing. The whole piece was approached through emotions. We will open the book and, for example, find a word in the book and say, “Okay let's express this word and see where it takes us. How can we move side to side from the stage without actually thinking in the step but thinking in the emotion that will take you to the other side?” Jo Reed: That's so different from Alexei Ratmansky. Herman Cornejo: Completely. Completely. When Alexei will give you step to move from side to side Martha will give you a word or a feeling. And that's why they look so different. And I enjoy both very much. Martha gave me such a wider view of interpretation. Jo Reed: Can you talk about the difference as a dancer when you’re dancing a piece that actually has a story as opposed to a work where there really isn't? Herman Cornejo: It's funny because if I think in all the pieces that I've done even though they could be abstract there's no way I could do something without making a story or creating in my head something. And I think for the audience, as well, I don't think they see an abstract ballet and they don't feel anything. I think everybody always tries to make sense of that moment. And funny enough, creating abstracts works it gives you a freedom of creating in your head whatever story you want and that’s something very nice. Now, creating a piece where you’re limited to feel one thing in a certain moment it's also rewarding but it's takes more study in a way. You need to really understand why you want to say that and why in that moment it's important to say that. So you’re approaching a very different way. But I love acting and I think that's why even if I'm doing an abstract work I’m creating in my head a story. Jo Reed: You mentioned the audience. Can you talk about your relationship with the audience? Can you feel the audience while you're up there on the stage dancing? Herman Cornejo: I think the audience is who makes me perform and, in a way, who makes me perform differently every night. I think that energy that comes from the audience is what makes you and your partner, as well, what makes you do things differently. For example, I'm not a dancer that could go into an empty theater and perform and be happy. I prefer to take a walk if there's no one in the theatre. So for me to have the audience is really, really important. It's what makes me dance and be out there. Jo Reed: ABT opens its fall season in a couple of weeks? Herman Cornejo: Yes. And we do the first show in October. Jo Reed: What is your day-to-day regime right now? Herman Cornejo: Well, our normal day of work will be to start class at ten fifteen. And we have an hour-and-a-half class that is a must. You always have to do the class. It’s for you. It's for your muscles. It’s in a way meditation for your body and mind to connect. And we have a fifteen-minute break just to change or drink water. And we start rehearsal at twelve. And they go from twelve to seven. And it depends on your repertoire for the season how many hours you work in that day. But usually you’re in every piece so you work twelve to seven. Jo Reed: How many ballets can you keep in your head? How many ballets are you going to be performing in the fall season? Herman Cornejo: I think in the fall season I’m performing five different pieces. They’re all in my head apart from one that is going to be a new creation. But, for example, the way I learn the steps and they stay with me it's with music. For example, if right now, you asked me what comes after the beginning of I don't know Fancy Free. I really don't remember the step. But if you put me the music I can do the whole ballet. And that's how we learn the steps with the music. And then the music becomes your steps. And in my head, you put me with Romeo and Juliet music and I can do the whole Romeo or the whole Bayadère. So every ballet is in my head but I don't remember the steps. I remember what to do with the music. Jo Reed: Are you a quick study? Herman Cornejo: Very quick. Yes. Now happening in the Vail Festival, I had the pleasure to work with Justin Peck. And he choreographed a whole piece on me in five days. And not only choreographing but rehearsing and making sure I remember everything to perform it well. So that's a very fast timing. Jo Reed: What's more difficult for you? What do you have to really focus on? Herman Cornejo: I think the difficulty is to understand the choreographer’s musicality because ultimately that's what it's going to be different. Sometimes is not about the steps. Choreographers can do the same step but it's how they put in the music. It's their time timing, their musicality that makes everything different. And so, I guess, that's the difficulty for me to understand what he's hearing and make it happen that way. Jo Reed: Okay, here's my question. I think of Jerome Robbins and Fancy Free, for example, that music and those steps it just seems like one to me. Is that true as a dancer? Herman Cornejo: Completely. And, actually, Fancy Free is one of my favorite ballets. Mostly all of the pieces from Robbins are one of my favorites because he's very organic and it feels very good in my body to do them. And Fancy Free is just you put the music and it's telling you what to do. Jo Reed: Yeah. That's good because I feel that way in the audience. So that's really nice to know. Herman Cornejo: Yeah. They are really choreographers that they feel the music and they understand it so well that they put the step that it should be there and everybody can see it. It's like yeah, there's no other way. That step has to be there. Jo Reed: Rights. Exactly. You can't imagine any other movement but that one. Is there a lot of camaraderie among the dancers even though you’re, in a way, competing for roles? Herman Cornejo: It's funny because it could seem that way because with millions of dancers in the world and not many great companies. And after all of these horror movies about dance you could feel oh, dance, is a terrible world. But, in fact, it's quite the opposite. And I don't know, maybe this happens only an American Ballet Theatre but it's a family. It's really a family. Every dancer that joins the company we take them as a friend and right away become part of the family and we don't compete with each other. We just try to do our best and when it's not your time to do the role it’s just because it's not your time, not because the other one can do it better. And I love the feeling in this company. That's why I've been here for 20 years. Jo Reed: That’s a long time. Herman, thank you so much for giving me your time. And congratulations, again. And take great pleasure in this well-deserved award. Herman Cornejo: Thank you so much. I really appreciate this talk with you. Jo Reed: Not at all. I did as well. And really, thank you, for so many hours of just wonderful, wonderful dancing. Herman Cornejo: Thank you very much. *Music Up* Jo Reed: That is dancer Herman Cornejo. ABT will open their fall season in mid-October and you can see Herman dancing Fancy Free by Jerome Robbins… check it out at abt.org. You’ve been listening to Art Works produced at the National Endowment for the Arts. You can subscribe to Art Works where ever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating on Apple—it helps people to find us. For the National Endowment for the Arts, I'm Josephine Reed. Thanks for listening. ###