Ty Defoe: Hello, <speaks Ojibwe> My name is Ty Defoe. I’m from the Oneida and the Ojibwe Nations. I’m from the Eagle Clan. I’m two-spirit and I am an artist. I’m a hyphenated, interdisciplinary, shape-shifting artist. Come to Me Great Mystery under Adam Kampe: TY DEFOE IS A PERFORMER, SONGWRITER, EDUCATOR, AND ACTOR. THAT’S TY IN THE BACKGROUND SINGING ON THE GRAMMY AWARD-WINNING ALBUM, COME TO ME GREAT MYSTERY: NATIVE AMERICAN HEALING SONGS. Ty Defoe: Two-spirit meaning that there’s more than one gender. It’s also in various languages, depending on nation, means that one is transcending gender. So that gender isn’t operating within a binary social construct that we need to understand gender. But it’s actually living in a physical way, in a spiritual way, in a way that one wants to identify themselves so there’s lots of room for expansion. It also means artist, it means activist to me. It means the way at which one is expressing themselves. Guitar instrumental Adam Kampe:. I SPOKE WITH TY DEFOE INSIDE THE OFFICES OF THE SECOND STAGE THEATER TO DISCUSS HIS BROADWAY DEBUT IN Young Jean Lee’s PLAY, “Straight White Men.” I’M ADAM KAMPE FOR THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS’S BLOG, ART WORKS. THE PLAY CLOSED SEPTEMBER 8. ON ITS FACE, THE PLAY IS ABOUT THREE MIDDLE-AGED BROTHERS REUNITING AT THEIR CHILDHOOD HOME WITH THEIR WIDOWER FATHER FOR CHRISTMAS. EVERYONE ON STAGE IS A STRAIGHT WHITE MAN; WELL EVERYONE EXCEPT TY DEFOE AND KATE BORNSTEIN. SHE’S A LEGENDARY PERFORMER AND GENDER THEORIST WHO IDENTIFIES AS NONBINARY AND HE’S A TWO-SPIRIT SHAPE-SHIFTING ARTIST. THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, THERE IS A LITERAL FRAME AROUND THE STAGE WITH A NAME PLATE THAT READS “STRAIGHT WHITE MEN.” Ty Defoe: There’s a framework around this species of masculinity of straight, white men about what they’re doing exactly, almost as if we’re staring into a diorama and seeing people perform. What’s interesting for me as a person of color, as a queer person, the gaze at which I’m looking at this art form take place. It’s to me one of those mirrored plays, depending on who’s viewing the work, that’s what it’s about, even though there is a narrative about three brothers coming home to spend time with their father on Christmas. AK: THE PLAY IS GROUNDBREAKING FOR AT LEAST TWO REASONS. ONE, YOUNG JEAN LEE IS THE FIRST ASIAN-AMERICAN WOMAN TO HAVE A PLAY MOUNTED ON BROADWAY. TWO, THE PLAY OPENS IN A HIGHLY UNCONVENTIONAL WAY. AS AUDIENCE MEMBERS TAKE THEIR SEATS, LOUD HIP HOP PLAYS IN THE THEATER. IT’S DELIBERATELY JARRING. KATE BORNSTEIN AND TY DEFOE, WHO PLAY PERSONS IN CHARGE NUMBER ONE AND TWO, MINGLE WITH THE AUDIENCE BEFORE THE SHOW STARTS AND EVENTUALLY WELCOME THE AUDIENCE FROM THE STAGE. WITH A WINK, THEY APOLOGIZE FOR THE MUSIC AND HOPE NO ONE FEELS … MARGINALIZED OR OUTRIGHT DISMISSED. Ty Defoe: I think a show that starts off with music blaring, which makes a lot of people uncomfortable, opens people up to a discussion about what are privileges in something like sight and sound. Kate and I had many conversations about what our roles are as Person in Charge 1 and Person in Charge 2. It’s almost like a performance art piece before the actual “show”, quote-unquote, proper happens, before the action and the narrative that is going to take place. However, there’s a narrative that’s being unpacked soon as people encounter our roles so it is very experimental in a lot of ways for Broadway. And that experience is almost like facilitators, as caretakers, as stewards of humanness and how human behavior is operating. We actually are practicing empathy in real ways to make folks feel comfortable as they’re watching, you know, straight white men in this play take place. So while people are going to it sometimes depending on how one identifies, thinking, “Oh, we’re going to talk about gender, we’re going to talk about race,” but it’s like, yes, we’re going to talk about that and more. We’re going to talk about all the ways in which every single person holds privileges in some kind of way. In discussion with Young Jean Lee, I really wanted to be sort of almost the welcomer, too, to do a land acknowledgement in the piece, which I don’t even know if that’s ever happened on Broadway, but that was one thing I really wanted to underscore, because I feel like as a person who is two-spirit and a generative artist, is land acknowledgement—where the theater is, where people are watching the show take place. Like, underground of that newly renovated theater is the Earth, it’s Mother Earth, and it’s soil, and it’s indigenous folks that were here since hundreds and hundreds and thousands of years ago. “So I just want to say welcome. The theater is built on the land of my people.” some people clap, some people laugh and people are like, “Ouch!” because all of that’s true because it’s still sort of happening right now. For me, within under ten seconds to do a land acknowledgment is extremely important. And that happens so very fast. And, hopefully, weeks from when people see the show or overnight they begin to think about that as it’s taking place. Directly afterwards, I take it to a more personal level and talk about the interaction that I have with my friends about me being a part of the show and me actually talking to them and saying, “Hey, y’all. I’m in the show ‘Straight White Men’.” And usually my friends, they’re like, “Uhm. Ty, you’re not-- you’re like the opposite of a straight white guy.” So, also being really real and honest in bringing that sort of truth to that moment. So we had to be very precise about what we were saying. And we did work with Young Jean Lee. We worked with a dramaturge, Mike Ferry, as well as Young Jean’s interns, Nia Farrell and Jason Biscup and Anna Shapiro, the director. We all sat around a table and talked about who we were, how we saw ourselves, how we wanted to be portrayed. We talked about the fine lines of tokenization, what that might mean during a show like “Straight White Men” to have people with the least amount of privilege quite possibly in Broadway houses, what that might be like, and how we could leverage different ways of power within a room with this speech. How might “people in charge” change some of those dynamics as we’re having a personal conversation with people and greeting them in their seat and then getting on the stage, how might the conversation shift? Ambient music IF THE STAGE IS SET TO LOOK LIKE THESE STRAIGHT WHITE MEN ARE A MUSEUM EXHIBIT, THEN PERSONS IN CHARGE 1 AND 2 ARE OUR DOCENTS. We’re in the frame and we’re gazing at straight white guys as to remind the audience that they’re looking at straight white guys, and I think that was a really clever way in terms of a constant reminder to the audience, who may or may not get, or remember, the top part of the show, that we’re there guiding these straight white guys through their life. There was a medicine woman that came to see the show, which was really fantastic. What I found so interesting, her perspective of seeing the show was she was like, “Oh, you were like a spirit, showing them. You were there and you were leading them and not dictating to them what they were supposed to do,” and I was like, “Yes.” <laughs> I really felt that interpretation because of the Land Acknowledgment at the beginning. Because of how I, what I read as my social identity and location, how I view my identity and Two-Spiritness, and so her perspective and take on that I totally clicked into. I was like, “Yeah. There are spirits. There’s an energy that’s around us all the time, and if we pay attention to it, we can see that it’s there,” and this is something that is common among many indigenous people, so that’s another perspective and read and interpretation of it. Ambient music. What I really appreciate from working on this production is the multiplicity of voices, especially working with Young Jean, who I really look up to as an artist and a person and individual. I think the way at which she was bringing people into the conversation, not only just the way she works with devising work but, inside of the room, if there was a voice that was missing, Young Jean also ensured that these voices were there, whether they were through her students, whether they were through other people of color, so we weren’t also the only people, like, holding that for ourselves. You know, Young Jean being the first Asian-American female playwright to be produced on Broadway, which is huge and amazing. Watching her and Anna work together interpreting moments, getting specific kinds of messages across I feel like were really important. Also that the audience is a much of a part a character <laughs> as anything of the characters that are on the stage, and that was hugely something that I learned and something that I, every night, keeps it so vibrant for me. It’s very much alive because of the people that come to it. Music. I wanted to be a part of this play because I feel like it is, I feel like it’s a step that is heading towards the future where the theater is meant for everybody. We can afford right now to take more risks leaning in that direction. I am talking about culture, race, religion, class, sexual orientation, gender. That we get to experience stories that we couldn’t even imagine that we would be seeing on stages. Whoever comes to see that show, they should be able to see themselves portrayed on the stage in some capacity. Adam Kampe: THAT’S ACTOR AND MULTIDISCIPLINARY ARTIST TY DEFOE ON YOUNG JEAN LEE’S EXPERIMENTAL PLAY, “STRAIGHT WHITE MEN, WHICH RECEIVED SUPPORT FROM THE NEA. SPECIAL THANKS TO THE FOLKS AT SECOND STAGE FOR HELPING ARRANGE THIS INTERVIEW. FOR THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS, I’M ADAM KAMPE. Credits: Excerpts of “Come to Me Great Mystery,” arranged by Tom Wasinger and performed by Ty Defoe, from the album, Come to Me Great Mystery: Native American Healing Songs, used courtesy of Silverwave Records. The following songs found on WFMU’s Free Music Archive and used courtesy of Creative Commons. Excerpt of Multitudes from Plays Guitar Again by Gillicuddy Excerpt of Forget Me from October 2018 by Yung-Kartz Excerpts of Early Evening and Dilettante from Cutting Rooms, by Julian Winter