Music Credits: “NY” composed and performed by Kosta T, from the cd Soul Sand, used courtesy of the  Free Music Archive.

Jo Reed: From the National Endowment for the Arts, this is Art Works, I’m Josephine Reed.

Brandon Victor Dixon: I love the community, co-operational element of theater, and I love the inspirational, aspirational element of theater. I think those are those are the things, art is the most exponentially transformative tool that we have as a culture and a community, and I think theater is an ultimate synthesis of those elements.

Jo Reed: You just heard actor, singer, and producer Brandon Victor Dixon..a Broadway triple threat with one of the best singing voices on stage today. Here’s a glimpse—and just a glimpse—of some of his work on Broadway: he originated the roles of Harpo in “The Color Purple”, Eubie Blake in “Shuffle Along” and “Berry Gordy” in Motown the Musical—all Tony-Award nominated performances. He assumed the role of Aaron Burr in “Hamilton” and starred opposite John Legend as Judas in live televised version of “Jesus Christ Superstar” which earned him an Emmy-Award nomination. As a producer, Brandon’s credits include the Broadway production of “Hedwig and the Angry Inch”  which won the 2014 Tony Award and the Drama Desk Award for best revival of a musical. Brandon is gearing up for a one-night concert benefitting the Classical Theater of Harlem called “Here for the Holidays” even as he performs in the new Alicia Key’s musical “Hell’s Kitchen” at NYC’s Public Theater And Hell’s Kitchen is where I began my conversation with Brandon Victor Dixon 

Jo Reed: Brandon, your current play at the Public Theater, Hell's Kitchen, is generating a lot of buzz. Can you just tell us what attracted you to this project, and a little bit about Davis, the character you play?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Well, the primary attractions to the project for me were Michael Greif, who is an individual with whom I have a relationship. 

Jo Reed: And Michael Greif is the director

Brandon Victor Dixon:  Yes. We've worked together multiple times. And Alicia Keys, and the work of Alicia Keys, I've always been a big fan of hers and I thought the idea of her doing a musical, exploring her art in this format, was going to be a success. And I get to play her absentee father, Davis, in the play, and really, Davis is an individual with whom both her and her mother have a complicated relationship, but a relationship that does find its balance. Davis is a musician, and he and Ally's mother, they're not in a current, ongoing relationship, they're not married, he lives out of the state. But they do maintain a level of contact and when she reaches a catalytic point in her relationship with Ally, she reaches out to see if he can pay them a visit.

Jo Reed: And just to say, Ally plays, I guess, what we would call the Alicia Keys character in “Hell's Kitchen.”

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes. Ally is our Alicia Keys archetype. But she is the young girl whom we all watch come of age in our play.

Jo Reed: One of the songs you sing  with Shoshana Bean, who plays Ally's mother is “Not Even The King”  Tell me what that experience is like, delivering that Alicia Keys song.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Well, it's a lot of fun. Alicia had a very specific idea from the beginning, that she wanted to approach it differently than how she does the record. And singing it with somebody like Shoshana, who's such a wonderful singer and a wonderful actress, makes it a fun number within which we can play each evening

Jo Reed: I'm curious, you used the word "play." Are you a performer who likes to change things up? Or do you prefer to freeze a performance?

Brandon Victor Dixon: You know, it's interesting. I am a performer who does make adjustments and does like to alter things, or just likes to exist in the moment. But I am amongst artists who like to do that as well, even to some greater extent than I at times. So it's interesting to be the conservative amongst the group, when I'm usually the I'm usually the commando, the outlier.

Jo Reed: I love knowing about artistic process and I would really love to have you talk about what it's like to create a role, and we can use the role of Davis as an example, though Lord knows that he's hardly the only character you've created. What's it like to get these words on a page and then you literally have to put a body and a voice to it?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Every process is different and every process requires lesser or greater building blocks to create the architecture you need within which to breathe life, right? There's a certain level of architecture you need to create that is the character, and then there's the space you have to fill it with, which is you. And sometimes that requires more and sometimes that requires less, depending on what kind of project it is and depending on how the project is built. Davis is actually largely built on me and my interactions with Shoshana and my interactions with Malia. So, just like the show, the characters are loosely based on Alicia's life. The character and the circumstances of Davis are loosely based on her life, and so there are some foundational elements there. But for the most part, where we found Davis was in the room between our interactions as performers.

Jo Reed: And Malia plays Ally.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes. The wonderfully talented Malia plays Ally.

Jo Reed: Do you like to go off book early and get up on your feet? What's your comfort level in a rehearsal process?

Brandon Victor Dixon: My general process is to go to rehearsal with script pages in hand before I start to move off the page. Different people are different. Some people will show up day one completely memorized and things like that, and I'm not like that. But by the time we have rehearsed the scene for a second individual session, then after that is when I start to move off book. But I don't feel pressure to be off book at any particular point in time. Yeah, I don't.

Jo Reed: You had this opened at the Public Theater, so shout out to the public. Tell me about that opening night. I mean, the excitement must have been extraordinary.

Brandon Victor Dixon: I think so. The public's been developing the show for a long time and Alicia is one of those artists who really has a very broad appeal, very genuinely global appeal. So people have really been excited at the kinds of work that she's done over the years and so when she moved into this space and when it came to the Public, which is definitely known for bringing fantastic work to the city the buzz really built in a very positive way for the show and I think the very honest story that we have to tell and the emotional pull and the emotional narrative that Alicia's music naturally possesses, I think just creates a formula that people find compelling. And so we had been in previews for a couple of weeks before we opened and by the time we opened we had pretty much sold out, actually, and so the energy and the excitement was definitely there and it was wonderful to at long last officially open the show to public viewing.

Jo Reed: How do you keep a performance fresh for eight shows a week?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Well, you can go off the natural drive of the artistic material for a while, depending on what it is. And then a lot of it has to become a reliance on your fellow performers playing with one another and keeping things alive with one another. But also and actually I spoke to this point to the group the other day, you also have to really decide what it is you are doing through the vehicle of the play. The play is about something, it's about something to the writers. Is it about those exact same elements for you? Is it about something else? What is the lesson you are trying to communicate to the audience through the vehicle of the play? And once you determine that, then it can make it easier to use the same tool to communicate a message to a different group of people. That when the tool does not become stale, the tool is just the tool, and the meeting is what is new, the meeting and the group. The opportunity to share is what is new, and that is where you live.

Jo Reed: “Hell's Kitchen” is moving to Broadway, and I know this is really early, but I wonder what you think will shift as it makes that transition. Obviously, it'll get bigger because the theater is going to be bigger, the stage will be bigger.

Brandon Victor Dixon: I think it will get stronger. We've had the experience now of exposing the play to the audience. And you work as a creative group internally and you live with the material, you're in the material and sometimes that can you can kind of almost get lost in the material. So then sharing it with audiences is a great opportunity to get you to take a step back out and to look at where there are places where you can strengthen your show. And so I think our show will get stronger.

Jo Reed: I wonder what inspired you originally to go after a career in acting and singing?  Andwhat was the attraction to musicals?

Brandon Victor Dixon: I think there is a just an innate compulsion in me. I've known since from a very young age that this was the environment that I wanted to live in. This was a career I wanted to pursue, and fortunately, I was in an educational environment that understood the crucial importance of an arts education. So I had a music class every day. I had a music teacher who put on three musicals a year in the school.  I became very familiar with the American musical, and also through that became very drawn to the great Julie Andrews. And I think that's where my foundation, my love of musicals began and my greatest artistic inspiration is Michael Jackson, -- the diverse level of his artistry, the height of it, the storytelling through song, dance, theater, film. Those are really what got me into it. Again, like I said, fortunately, my educational environment fostered it in a strong and compelling way.

Jo Reed: You went to Columbia University. Did you study theater there?

Brandon Victor Dixon: I did. I did eventually. I mean, initially I was a split major. I was in econ with a film concentration. But all the while I was taking classes in the theater department and performing in productions on campus and auditioning for professional shows in the city while I was going to class. So I was studying other things, but I was continuing to develop my education in performing arts.

Jo Reed: And right out of college, right out of Columbia, you played Simba in the national tour of “The Lion King.”

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes.

Jo Reed: Was that really your first big professional experience?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes, it absolutely was. I mean, on a technical level, no, because I booked “The Lion King”, which began in February 2003. But right after I booked “The Lion King,” I also booked an engagement at City Center Encores in the city, which was in the fall of 2002. So I debuted at City Center in “House of Flowers”, and then I left and joined “The Lion King.”

Jo Reed: What was that experience like of playing such an important role in a national tour as you're going across the country?

Brandon Victor Dixon: It was harrowing.

Jo Reed: I bet.

Brandon Victor Dixon: I had always been a very natural performer. It was something I did with a great ease and love. But when I was doing The Lion King, I had vocal challenges, particularly with the big song that Simba sings, “Endless Night.”  Throughout the audition process my success through the song was really about 50-50. Sometimes I would sing it cleanly and sometimes I would crack and break throughout the end of the song. So I booked the job and I was grateful for that. But I did not have much confidence in my ability to do this thing that I had done with such ease before for one or two weekends, that now I had to do every single day for my job. And so it was a very challenging experience for me.

Jo Reed: You created the role of Eubie Blake in “Shuffle Along,” and my God, what a cast that was. Audra McDonald, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Billy Porter. Just tell me a little bit about that experience.

Brandon Victor Dixon: That was a wonderful experience. I've been blessed to be a part of a few masterpieces in my life and “Shuffle Along” is definitely one of them, and made all the more special because of the cast. Audra McDonald and Brian Stokes Mitchell in particular. Brian Stokes Mitchell is my theatrical idol and the first show I saw, Broadway show I saw in New York City, was “Ragtime”. And so I saw Brian and Audra in that. So it was really a full circle dream come true moment to be in that in that show with them and Billy and Joshua Henry and that whole wonderful cast.

Jo Reed: You were also in “Motown the Musical” playing Berry Gordy, so Eubie Blake, Berry Gordy. What's the challenges of creating a role based on a real person? In the case of somebody like Gordy, one we think we know.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yeah, I think that they're all different. On one hand, there's a real benefit because it was a real person. There's a volume of information about what they did and how they felt. A lot of times there are autobiographies.  So there are places to gather a lot of information about people. But the trick with some of them, the blessing,( laugh) the trick, but the blessing. But also the trick is that if they're alive, then you can study them, obviously, but there's just the added pressure of presenting them in front of them, in front of themselves. But I have I've had the opportunity to play real life figures a number of times, and it's something that I enjoy doing. 

Jo Reed: Aaron Burr in “Hamilton”. That had to have been both challenging and so rewarding, and I'd love to have you describe the difference between creating a role from scratch and picking up a role after a performer like Leslie Odom Jr. leaves it.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Picking it up from scratch is unique because it's all your kind of ideas and instincts and it's a path you craft all your own. Following in someone's footsteps is an interesting thing. I think the initial fear is always that how will you find a way to make it your own, but I found very quickly with “Hamilton,” I found myself finding my own path rather quickly. Obviously, not every step I covered was my own, I made sure to steal all of Leslie's great stuff. But I found very quickly that because of the richness of the material, my creative brain began to take it in a variety of directions. I found that through the course of playing it over a year, I found myself able to play Burr in a variety of ways and still make the play work and make the character come to life. So I really enjoyed that.

Jo Reed: “Hamilton” was such a huge hit. I mean, it still is. Did you have to deal in some ways with audience expectations when you walked out on that stage? I'm just so curious about what the relationship is like between a performer and an audience, and especially in something like “Hamilton,” which is such a big play also in a big Broadway theater. I would imagine it's very different in the Public Theater, which is smaller and much more intimate. So it's a different kind of relationship you would have with the audience, I would think.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes. Different theaters and different plays create different kinds of relationships with the audience. “Hamilton”, I will say as far as expectation, the only level of awareness I really had of that was based on the fact that people had such a love for the material that they knew it so well. And so I was very aware of the fact that the moment I made a mistake, I would be exposed and ridiculed online. And so in order to combat that, whenever I would make a mistake, I would immediately go online first in a segment on Instagram that I entitled “Burr's Corner”, which is named after Winnie the Pooh's Corner, Pooh's Corner. And I would tell the world what I was supposed to say and what I actually said. That is how I addressed audience expectations.

Jo Reed: You also played Judas in the live, underscore live, TV production of “Jesus Christ Superstar”. What were the key moments of that and the challenges of performing something live on national television or international, it probably was international, wasn't it?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes, it definitely is an international project. I think the key moments of that were really figuring out how to merge the live theater elements with the live television technical elements in the space. We rehearsed very much like a Broadway production in the rehearsal space. But once we moved into our set we really had to merge the theater and the technical elements and that was the process that I found the most interesting about that project.

Jo Reed: What about vocal preparation associated with songs in there like “Heaven on Their Minds,” which is just has this range that's kind of crazy. 

Brandon Victor Dixon: Well, fortunately, I was familiar with “Heaven on Their Minds”. I discovered it in high school. So I had it in my back pocket for a while. In fact, there are one or two times I would go to an audition just to just to sing it. So fortunately, I had that. And these days, that kind of high octane high note singing is something that is required of us aspiring leading men. But once I got the job I was very conscious of building up vocal stamina over the course of the rehearsal process so that when we filmed I was in a strong and healthy place.

Jo Reed: I wonder how your approach to acting shifts between your work on stage and your work in television. There's obviously “Jesus Christ Superstar”, but you were also in the TV series “Power”. How does it shift?

Brandon Victor Dixon: A lot of the elements are the same, the foundational elements are the same in preparation of trying to understand the script and character and story and then the mechanics of how the show work, whether it's a theatrical show or a television show, the mechanics and structure of how the show is set up. And then from there the difference in television is because it changes every two weeks per episode. There's a kind of a different level of memorization, of practical application, and also kind of like individual rehearsal practice, because you have to show up on set prepared to do a thing that you haven't had weeks to rehearse and prepare, which is what you get to do in theater.

Jo Reed: I would also think in television, there's so much waiting around.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Oh, yes, there's definitely a lot of waiting around. It's difficult to immerse yourself in a process in television. So your individual process as an actor really has to develop.

Jo Reed: You've also made your mark, and a very prominent one, as a producer. What made you decide you wanted to move into that aspect of theater?

Brandon Victor Dixon: It was a pretty natural evolution. You start out as a performer wanting to get mastery over your lines and your musical notes and then you want mastery over your scene and then over the act, over the play. And the more you look, you seek to understand how to communicate your message to the audience, the more concerned you become with the tools that are involved in that. All right, well, "I want to walk over here and I want the lights to look like this and I wanted to do that," and it's like, "Well, why can't we do that? Why can't we do that? Or who's in charge of that?" And so naturally, you expand outward and outward further and further as you get to the point of, all right, well, it's the producer who gets to make these decisions. So that is the position you want to seek. And additionally, you put a certain level of creative input and energy into a production and you want to be able to benefit financially off of that even after you left the stage. And so that's a lot of where that development comes from.

Jo Reed: You are a Tony Award winning producer for “Hedwig and the Angry Inch”. What drew you to that show, talk about your vision for that production and how that manifested.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Well, the vision for the production really belongs to David Fincher, who's the lead producer on the project. But I was familiar with the property, and I knew that it had never made it to Broadway, but it had a very big audience and I thought that the casting was spectacular. And so I thought it had a real shot of being a fantastic production and I'm glad we were able to be a part of it.

Jo Reed: I wonder if that experience influenced subsequent career decisions that you've made, or ways that you think about theater more now that you've been deeply involved in this other aspect of it.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Oh, absolutely. Expanding my participation in different aspects of the business has definitely diversified my understanding of the kinds of things I want to be involved in, the kinds of partners with whom I want to be involved. The impact of work, and so it's definitely had an impact on how I look at myself as a creative artist.

Jo Reed: You're in “Hell's Kitchen” at the Public Theater, but you're gearing up for “Here for the Holidays”, a concert at Ginny's Supper Club in Harlem on December 18th. What's the backstory, how did this come to be?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Oh, well, so the Classic Theater of Harlem, it is their holiday benefit concert, and one of the directors of the Classic Theater is a colleague of mine, Ty Jones. We've known each other kind of throughout the New York theater scene in general, but also Ty starred on “Power” with me. And since we've done this show, we've kept in close contact and we did some work earlier in the year, did some work earlier in the year with the Classic Theater of Harlem and Ty asked me if I wanted to join them for their holiday benefit, which is being hosted by Ethan Hawke. And I was happy to do so, so December 18th, we will be at Ginny's Supper Club toasting the Classic Theater of Harlem.

Jo Reed: Putting a concert together is like telling a story, so I'm curious, what story are you looking to tell with “Here for the Holidays”?

Brandon Victor Dixon: The story I'm looking to tell with :Here for the Holidays” is the story of fighting to be present despite the present moment, maybe not meeting your expectations. Not letting the disappointment in your expectations block you from the blessings of the present. In efforts to do that, we are all going to work to be here for the holidays.

Jo Reed: You are doing this while you're doing eight shows a week.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes, ma'am.

Jo Reed: And you're taking the time to talk to me now, so double appreciation there. You're also a political advocate, you're co-founder of the We Are Foundation. Can you tell me about the work of the foundation?

Brandon Victor Dixon: Well the foundation was founded to use the power of art to bridge the gaps between communities. A large part of our initial work was working to kind of connect people to the power of the vote. So voter education, local voter education, and education amongst school programs and arts education programs to communicate to people the intersection between politics and art and activism. And that's largely, we've worked in areas like Miami, Jacksonville, Detroit, and D.C. Working to kind of spread that message and communicate that in conjunction with other organizations and programs.

Jo Reed: Every actor, every performer faces challenging moments throughout their career and I'm wondering if you can share one of those moments, and how you met that moment.

Brandon Victor Dixon: Yes. As I stated before, “The Lion King” was my first job and it is to date the most challenging professional experience, because I had vocal challenges. And so when I went out to do the job, because my audition process was chancy, was spotty, I was excited that I got the job, but I lacked confidence. I was anxious at my ability to replicate my performance on a regular basis, and that anxiety made me tight and constricted my voice and really had me sounding vocally poor throughout the rehearsal process, which was very embarrassing. It was a very public process. They got me a voice teacher, which I was embarrassed by, and eventually they thought the challenges were so bad that they thought they should transpose the song “Endless Night” down a half step, which I was ashamed of, though they assured me that was not the first time they had done it and they actually were currently on Broadway performing the song down a half step. But they wanted me to kind of stop worrying about the song so that I didn't worry about my performance. And they were correct, it did help me. We opened the show and I felt good.  But then they returned three months later, the creative team, and they said we think you sound great. We think we'd like to move the song back up into the original key. And one thing I had discovered in their absence is that when I would work with the voice teacher, sometimes he would forget to play the song in the lower key. He would play it in the higher key and I would sing the song with great ease. So we recognized that it was not a vocal issue I was having, but a mental issue. And so when the creative team came back and said they wanted to move the song back up, I told them to do it, but they could not tell me when they were going to do it. So obviously each night that week, I thought the song was higher, but they moved it up on a Thursday night and I sang the song successfully, and I never had a problem since and backstage, the whole cast gave a huge cheer for me in celebration of my triumph, and I am always deeply forever grateful to them for their support for me during those trying times.

Jo Reed: What do you love about theater?

Brandon Victor Dixon: I love the community, co-operational element of theater, and I love the inspirational, aspirational element of theater. I think those are those are the things. Art is the most exponentially transformative tool that we have as a culture and a community, and I think theater is an ultimate synthesis of those elements.

Jo Reed: Brandon, thank you so much. Thank you for giving me your time and thank you for your extraordinary work.

Brandon Victor Dixon: You're quite welcome. I appreciate it.

Jo Reed: That was actor, singer and producer Brandon Victor Dixon. Many thanks to the Public Theater for the excerpt from “Not Even the King.” “Hell’s Kitchen” is running at the Public Theater until January 14 and will move to Broadway in the Spring. Brandon’s benefit concert for the Classical Theater of Harlem takes place on December 18.  We’ll have links to the Public Theater, the Classical Theater of Harlem, and Brandon’s not-for-profit WeAre Foundation in our show notes. You’ve been listening to Art Works, produced at the National Endowment for the arts. Follow us where ever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating on apple. I’m Josephine Reed thanks for listening